维持原状!‘Allah’ allowed in East M’sia not in West M’sia


纳兹里:解决问题的最佳方案,回到原点

大马人为了“阿拉”,忙碌奔波超过两星期,教堂着火,至今还未有人被逮捕。问题依旧存在,死结无法解开。

内阁真的没有头绪吗?看样子又好像不太对。若不及时解决,仇恨扩散,面效应蔓延后

首相署部长纳兹里週四(14日)接受《启德行》属下3家报章访问时透露,内阁倾向维持原状,即东马可继续使用“阿拉”,西马继续禁止“阿拉”的应用。

纳兹里(左3)穿着深蓝色唐装,接受启德行属下3份不同语文的报章(《东方日报》、《Borneo Post》和《Utsuan Borneo》)专访,畅谈“阿拉”字眼争议的看法。

讓我們回到原本的情況,那就是西馬半島不允許使用『阿拉』字眼,東馬的沙巴和砂拉越就可以。我們必須尊重地方的文化和習俗。

東馬可以使用,因為他們(基督教徒)使用該字眼已經多年,獨立前就已經使用,但西馬的情況不同,我們必須明白和尊重當地習俗。

非教徒使用『阿拉』字眼將造成混淆,我們不應該讓這事件持續蔓延,讓爭議擴大。最好的解決方法是尊重既定的習俗。

大馬的基督教傳教歷史中不曾以阿拉伯文傳教,而是先以英文,然後以對像群的母語進行,馬來人不瞭解這些語文。如今,你突然要以馬來文進行,我們不明白為何如此?

我們非常肯定,國內基督教的宗教手稿以英文撰寫,或伊班文、卡達山文和華文。

东方日报》的报导如下,还有姐妹报《婆罗洲邮报》(Borneo Post)也刊登同样的新闻。

 納茲里剖析阿拉爭議 東馬可用西馬禁

(吉隆坡14日訊)首相署部長拿督斯里納茲里指出,化解「阿拉」字眼爭議的最佳做法是維持原狀,即允許東馬沙砂兩州基督教徒使用「阿拉」字眼,禁止西馬半島使用,讓一切恢復原點。他說:「讓我們回到原本的情況,那就是西馬半島不允許使用『阿拉』字眼,東馬的沙巴和砂拉越就可以。我們必須尊重地方的文化和習俗。」

他说,東馬可以使用,因為他們(基督教徒)使用該字眼已經多年,獨立前就已經使用,但西馬的情況不同,我們必須明白和尊重當地習俗。

他質疑西馬的基督教徒不曾以「阿拉」來形容上帝,為何現在要求使用?除非他們有意圖混淆人民。

法律賦予蘇丹權力

負責法律事務的納茲里今日接受啟德行集團屬下包括《東方日報》在內的3家報章聯合訪問時,這麼指出。2家來自東馬詩華集團的《婆羅洲馬來郵報》(Utusan Borneo)和《婆羅洲郵報》(Borneo Post)採訪隊伍,專程從亞庇和古晉飛抵吉隆坡專訪納茲里。

部長指出,回教屬於各州馬來統治者的權限範圍,西馬半島的州屬將執行各州的法律,即不允許使用「阿拉」字眼,因為這些州屬的法律賦予蘇丹權力。

1月5日,雪蘭莪蘇丹沙拉夫丁召見雪州回教理事會領導層時,諭令州內所有人民嚴格遵守,非回教不得使用「阿拉」字眼的條令。該諭令是以維護回教信仰,以及雪州人民的宗教和諧為出發點。

納茲里說,西馬11州之中,9州的馬來統治者可援引法律所賦予的權力來禁止非回教徒使用該字眼,其餘兩州(檳城和馬六甲)和聯邦直轄區的決定則取決於法庭針對「阿拉」字眼上訴案的裁決。

 「非教徒使用『阿拉』字眼將造成混淆,我們不應該讓這事件持續蔓延,讓爭議擴大。最好的解決方法是尊重既定的習俗。」

不解要以馬來文進行

納茲里說:「大馬的基督教傳教歷史中不曾以阿拉伯文傳教,而是先以英文,然後以對像群的母語進行,馬來人不瞭解這些語文。如今,你突然要以馬來文進行,我們不明白為何如此?」

 「我們非常肯定,國內基督教的宗教手稿以英文撰寫,或伊班文、卡達山文和華文。」

他指出,政府瞭解東馬沙砂兩州的基督教徒,特別是卡達山和伊班人使用印尼版本《聖經》的情況。他表示,國內的基督教都以英文或信徒的母語進行傳教,沒使用阿拉伯文;相對的,回教的《古蘭經》就只有一個原版的阿拉伯文,其他語文版本都是從阿拉伯文翻譯。

納茲里透露,內閣的回教徒部長認同維持原狀,但來自沙巴的種植及原產業部長丹斯里柏納東博則認為,應允許全馬基督徒使用「阿拉」字眼。

NONE

他指出,柏納東博在內閣會議中提出本身的看法,即應該讓基督教徒使用「阿拉」字眼,特別是馬來文是我國的官方語文,《聖經》的馬來文版也採用「阿拉」字眼。

他認為,馬來文版《聖經》的「阿拉」應該翻譯成「上蒼」(Tuhan),而非「阿拉」,因為基督教的「阿拉」和回教的「阿拉」有不同的解讀。

他指出,基督教擁有「三位一體」(Trinity)的思想,即聖父、聖子、聖靈三位一體的神;可是,回教的「阿拉」沒有父親、沒有兒子,祂並非被生出來,也沒有生出任何人。

他重申,耶穌不是阿拉之子,他是上帝的兒子。基督教徒和回教徒對「阿拉」和「上帝」有不同的認知,兩者不得混為一談,否則將引發混淆和爭議。

他說,華裔部長聽取他的解釋後,瞭解回教徒對「阿拉」字眼的敏感和堅持。惟,另一首相署部長許子根也提出本身的觀點。「印「阿拉」字眼的《聖經》應局限東馬而已,這是他們的傳統,我們尊重和不干預。」

反對將文化帶入西馬

他指出,一些觀點認為,東馬卡達山和伊班人前來西馬工作後,將當地的文化帶入西馬,包括出現「阿拉」的馬來文版《聖經》後,政府應該允許他們繼續使用。惟,他不認同這說法。

他不認同,東馬宗教文化帶入西馬的說法,並說道:「你來到西馬就應該尊重這里的文化和習俗,就好比我們到東馬時,必須接受他們的習俗,如使用『阿拉』字眼。」

「東馬可以使用,但來到西馬之後,就應該尊重當地文化和這里的敏感性,就如我們採取行動對付牛頭示威。」

他指出,從大馬的法律而言,沒有任何條文禁止購買牛頭、宰殺牛頭和腳踩牛頭。基於大馬的多元種族和多元宗教國情,人民對牛頭事件感到生氣。

他說:「雖然我國印裔只佔人口的7%。我們必須接受他們對這事情的敏感,所以政府採取行動。人民必須從這角度思考,大家互相尊重。若你能為興都教徒著想,也應該設身處地為回教徒著想。我們必須公平。」

他指出,踩牛頭固然沒有觸犯法律,但碰觸興都教徒的敏感,所以政府採取行動對付踩牛頭者;同樣的,非回教徒使用「阿拉」字眼是非常敏感。

納茲里否認,政府處理「阿拉」字眼的方式有誤,以致負面事端蔓延,其實爭議的始作俑者是《先驅報》發行人兼吉隆坡區大教主默菲巴吉安。

他不認同,「阿拉」字眼爭議是由前內政部長丹斯里賽哈密禁止《先驅報》使用「阿拉」字眼和又沒有妥當的處理後續工作而引發,令局勢蔓延至今難以收拾的局面。「政府沒將這事情帶上法庭,是默菲巴吉安帶上庭。他向法庭提出司法檢討。」

他指出,《先驅報》在數年前開始使用「阿拉」字眼,該週刊流入雪蘭莪之後被揭發。他表示,內長有責任維持國家安全,所以禁止《先驅報》的馬來文版使用「阿拉」字眼。

Some quotes from DS Nazri Aziz 

I want to tell you that when certain quarter say that the govt is wrong to bring the matter to court, I want to say that it was not the government who brought the matter to court.

It was Pakiam (Archbishop Murphy Pakiam, Publisher of Herald). He was the one to ask the court for a judicial review on the action taken by the Minstry of Home Affairs to ban the use of the word of Allah. For many reasons we are against the use of Allah.

In the constitution there is an article which says that no other religion except for Islam can be propagated in the Muslim or the Malay community. That is the article in the act.

In order to give effect to that article, almost every state has an enactment no religion is allowed to be propagated among the Muslim or Malay community, except Sabah and Sarawak, WP, Malacca and Penang. Among other things, it is interpreted that if you translate any religious books into Malay language, then that is seen as  an act to propagate of non-muslim religions to those who professed the Muslim faith.

The word Allah… this is in the enactment. So, in the state of Selangor it is the right of sultan or any muslim to insist the authorities to take any action against any people, group wanting to use Allah as reference to their God.

In all these states it is against the law. This is constitutional. We did not pick up somewhere. That’s why you see, if you read the papers, the sultan of Selangor has given a decree to stop using the word allah. In all the States, legally, it’s against the law. There is no question of any court of law allowing other religion for use of the world Allah?

Q: What about the States in Penang, Malacca, Sabah and Selangor, WP?

In all these states, there is no enactment, we use the printing act where the Minister of Home Affairs has a right to ban the use of any word if he foresees that it may cause some problems and later on affect the security of the country.

The minister makes the blanket plan for the use of the word. Of course the agreed party like the herald they were the one who brought this matter to court. That’s why Pakiam asked for judicial review whether the minister was right to ban. Because our system is such that the government has no choice to defend. 

We appeal because in the hight court, we feel that the judged has erred. In the High court, but that is not the issue. The issue is whether the minister has the discretion to ban. We appeal because the judge has erred.

She was making the decision whether Allah can be used. She could make decision in the four states that the Allah can be used. But not in other states.

The minister has not produced any strong evidence that if the word is not banned the security would be affected. This discretion given to the minister is preventive. At that time churches were not banned. It’s difficult for the minister to give evidence to say that five has died. We don’t want people to die, we don’t want churches to be burned. This is exactly the thing that we want to prevent. Because we can foresee that things can happen. Therefore we appeal.

This is one reason, legal and constitutional reason why the word Allah cannot be used.Of course there are other reason why the judge was wrong.

People are curious why so sensitive. Remember the cows’ head. If you look at all the laws in Malaysia, there is not a single law saying that I cannot buy a cow head, cut the head and step on it. I have done nothing wrong. Because we are multi-racial, multi-religious, people angry, but it’s true, in this country, we have 7% hindu. We must except their sensitivity. 

We must give and take. If you can feel for the Hindus, you must feel for the Muslims. Don’t because we have one group muslims, one group non-muslims. We can’t have that, we have to be fair.

I want to say the history of propagation or the spread of Christian faith in this country was never in Arabic It was in English and later on in their mother tongue. The Malays do not understand. Now why you want to use Malay suddenly, we don’t understand.

We are very sure the script used by Christians in this country is in English, or in Iban or Kadazan, or the Chinese in Chinese. We can’t understand why. In Islam, the Koran is in Arabic, the other are just translation.

… If Bernard (referring to Bernard Dompok) said, look this is Malaysia, BM is only Iban and Kadazan who can only understand BM. Of coursem bernard fine that’s it. You stick to Sabah and Sarawak. Fine no problem.

Bu if you are saying, there are now Ibans in Peninsular, just as we are going to Sarawak and Sbah, we respect. Of course, that’s for Sarawak and Sabah. But if you are saying that now there is Ibans in Semanjung.

If you come to Semanjung, then you respect our customs and culture. Look in Sarawak and Sabah, I have been to Churches, I listened to sermons. That’s fair. But if you come to Semanjung, follow our customs.

Q: Does that mean, there is two sets of law?

Yes! We don’t care what you do in Sarawak and Sabah, but don’t bring to Semanjung. It’s entirely different culture for us.

That’s cultural. Then we come to theology. We in Island, we have a Allah does not have a son. 

If you allow the Christians, especilaly the Roman Catholic. Jesus is the son of God. Mary is the Mother. There is this Holy Trinity. Our theology our doctrine say that Allah does not have a son. If you say, Allah has a son, difficult. It may confuse the Muslims themselves why Allah has a son. There is a confusion there.

We do not allow the confusion to be a debating item for the Muslims. We feel that the propagation of Christians will not be affected without using the word Allah. To avoid any future confusion, it’s best to respect each other customs.

We feel that the propagation of Christian faith in anyway if Allah is not used. And don’t come and tell me that Arab can use. But you never have your sermon in Arabic. Unless it is an attempt to confuse the people.

So avoid any future conflict it is best that we go back to status quo while waiting for the decision of the court. In Semanjung don’t use, Sarawak and Sabah can use.

Q: So are you saying under 1Malaysia you should have two sets of law, East and West Malaysia?

There have always been two sets. That is no news to use ? Even before 1Malaysia, there were two sets of laws, Syarah and Malaysia law. It is the best solution. It is nothing new having two systems. You know as I said even the courts have two systems.

1Malaysia is respecting each other belief and customs. Our two sets not only East and West Malaysia. We have the vanicular schools and national streams. That’s to show that we respect. For example like you talk about 1Malaysia, everything must be one, may be close Chinese School?

We are not farsighted enough, if we have actually encouraged more more non-chinese to Chinese schools, today, we would have been more successful. Because into 2010, China is the economic power. I regret not going to Chinese School. Or I would have gone to China and really talk and convince.

I am all to respect each other customs. I hate politicians who when they want support from their community, youngers like Nichole David, Lee Chong Wei, they contributed more than the politicians.

Politicians only contribute towards developing the country. But if if Lee Chong Wei, if he plays for Malaysia against China, he never thinks he is Chinese. He is Malaysian.

Q: Sentiments has been stirred. Do you think by having Sarawak and Sabah continuing to use Allah while Semanunjung Malaysia not to use will help ease the tenstion?

It should ease the situation. First, in most of the States is already the law. In the States, the sultan is the head of the muslim religion.

In three states, WP,  Penang and Melacca, we have to wait for the court decision. If the court so decide, we must respect. I am a seeker for law. I am a lawyer, if you break the laws, I don’t care. It does not matter you are muslim, non-muslim, you are malays, you are Chinese, I fight.

I am very determined. I have also got an AG, Tan Sri Gahni, who is very adamant about the law.  We don’t care. If you break the law, you are my opponon, even if we are of the same party.  I am also an anti-corruption minister. Our common enemy is corruption.

Q: What are your comments on Government managing the Allah Issues?

We managed very well. Because the minister took the action. If Pakiam has not brought the matter to court, nobody would not have known about it. Even to talk about who mishandled, it is not the government, ask Pakiam.

To me, people like these are very irresponsible. It will never have affected the  Christians at all if the word Allah is not use. If we have been sensitive just as we are sensitive to the Indians community, it would not have happened.

Since Pakiam brought this matter to court, we shall have got no choice, we have to go to court. As I said, we respect the law. We have the system, I will comply the system.

Q: How about the technical problem of Allah used in song?

The Malays know this is only a song. The Malays also know that if you use the word Allah when you can use the word Tuhan, the Malays will feel that something is in the midst.  Rekunnegara does not  mention Allah, only Tuhan.

Q: One of the arguments is that if we use the world Allah, the muslims will get confused. But in Indonesia and Brunei the word Allah is widely used, why the Muslims do not get confused?

In the first place, Islam does not have a place in Indonesia. That’s why the Indonesians are not so particular about religion. They even call their newspapers Koran. You must look at the culture. It’s called Koran. It’s Dutch.

Indonesia is Indonesia. Malaysia is Malaysia. Islam has a place in the constitution.

Number two, Indonesia is secular state. But here are neither secular, nor theology. It’s a combination.

一条回应

  1. 所以,东马西马是“一个马来西亚”?
    需要东马选票时,才“一个马来西亚”;
    想要持续建制时,就“两个马来西亚”。
    真讽刺。

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